This is the Tuesday Talk October 13, 2026. Tuesday Talks is a gathering on Zoom of devotees from the Ramakant Maharaj USA visit. This is a gathering of devotee’s to discuss and clarify the teachings of Sri Ramakant Maharaj. These spontaneous utterances are recorded and shared with anyone who may find them useful.
Jai Sadguru!
Tuesday Talk October 13, 2026
Transcribed by TurboScribe. With minimal edits.
Q: Can you hear me?
John: Yes, yes, you can hear me, right?
Q: Yeah, now I can.
John: Yeah, yeah.
Q: It sounded really quiet there. Okay, let's see. Oh yeah, I am the owner, the great owner.
So far, no, Alan, I listened to your guys' conversation from last week. That was, that was nice. Nice hearing Alan and his laugh and everything. But who's laughing now? I am, because I don't know, something's settling into me where I'm sort of like feeling the formlessness like pretty consistently now. And it kind of started yesterday.
And it's, I was recognizing, I guess, what you would call that subtle, subtle feeling that's kind of, it's kind of like always there in a way. It is, there's yourself.
John: Your feeling is because of the body. You're the formlessness, feeling the formlessness through the body form, knowing that you exist. And that's that sense of existence, just I, just I, that subtle, subtle, subtle sense of Presence.
Q: Yeah, and then that, although it's subtle, if I pay attention to it, like, or if I do Mantra, it like sort of like raises its level of being noticeable. Of course, yeah. And then it can, you know, it's potentially can like take over your whole sense of Presence.
John: So, the feeling I exist is coming from yourself. And it's only because of the body form in the illusory existence, you like, you have the key to the illusion. It opens the door to the sense of Presence and the sense I exist.
Now, of course, the one that exists, exists, whether that sense of existence is or is not. But yeah, the sense of Presence, the more your awareness is on the sense of Presence, the stronger it feels. Instead of your being aware of all the illusion, because the illusion is there, kind of, all your attention goes out to the illusory things, what's going on in my life, the problems, the issues, the happiness, the sadness, how can I have more?
I don't want this, I do want that. When your awareness is going on all these things, it's less of yourself, it's all outward. When awareness is on the sense of Presence, all this is filtered out, and then your identification slowly will go, oh, this sense of Presence, this just I, this just subtle feeling, this I am.
So now, no birth, no death, no damage, no trouble, no life, “Oh so that I, I am that.”
Q: And you mentioned something about that last week, you said, the note, I wrote it down, this is a quote of John here, knower of that knowledge that you are, is.
John: Whether the knowledge is or is not, the knower of the knowledge is that you are. And that's why the subtle sense of Presence is kind of, Maharaj talks about the, like rubbing chocolate or something, giving some chocolate to the kids to kind of keep them going, so to speak. Oh, good job, kids, you're doing your homework, here's a little bit of chocolate.
Well, that subtle sense of Presence is sort of like, good job, you, for becoming aware of the sense of Presence, and no longer giving your attention out to all the illusory, bothersome things in the illusory existence, you're starting to remain with your Selfless Self. The sense of Presence is that deep, deep, deep feeling of just I, and it's available all the time, of course, because that you are like, this subtle sense of Presence because of body form is felt. Now, when body is no more, the subtle sense of Presence won't be felt, but the knower of the sense of Presence will be, because always is.
And the entire world is projected on your spontaneous Presence. All of this is like the dream consciousness, waking dream or dreamy dream, just objects appearing and disappearing in your awareness. Oh, I'm aware of these things in my dream, I'm aware of these things in my waking dream, and yet, I'm not any of this.
These are all just appearances. The more I pay attention to the appearances, and the less I pay attention to my own self, the more the appearances appear to be true. Because I impart my everything, I impart imagination, I impart everything onto these illusory concepts, and allow them to grow.
I give importance to things that are not important, and then suffer when those important things are no more. Maharaj talks about chasing illusory problems and illusory enemies.
Q: It makes me think of, it's almost like, it's like an automatic Netti netti, where you don't even have to think about Netti netti, it's just, like, happening.
John: Knowing yourself in a real sense, it eliminates everything automatically. There's no need to say, I'm not this, I'm not that, or I'm not this, or it's not this, or it's not that. Because you are, nothing else is.
Everything else is an appearance. Within that, you are. It eliminates everything.
You know yourself in a real sense, it eliminates birth, death, what happens when I leave the body. All these, it just dissolves everything instantaneously. Or, as Maharaj says, spontaneously.
Spontaneous conviction. Oh, so that I, I am that. I am all that there is, ever was, and ever will be.
Q: And it somehow keeps making me laugh a lot of times. It reminds me of the laugh that I would get if I'm in pain, and it's like, certain types of pain can make you laugh. I don't know why it has a similar quality to it. I guess because you're recognizing, well, you're not really the pain or something. Well, you're not the losing. What's that? You're not the losing. Breaking up a little bit.
John: You're nothing. And not the concept of nothing. The true no thing.
That in which everything appears, but that does not appear or disappear. It's the constant. The one that sees the dream when you lay down and sleep at night and creates the entire dream world, projects all these different images, and then identifies with a dream body is the same one that in the waking world projects all of this waking dream. All these images appear, and you identify with a dream body.
Q: And somehow they leave an impression that seems like they exist.
John: Only if you identify with their form. If it identifies the body, then there are other bodies. Again, we talk about the best example, space in the room.
Space in the room suddenly becomes aware of itself in this body form. It sees other things, other objects and forgets its space and now is entertained. There's so much to see in this world. Look at this, all this stuff. But you're the space in which all this stuff appears and in reality have no relation. There's no correlation between the space in the room and the objects in it because all the objects can be thrown out and the space is not affected.
You can have a very small apartment and stack furniture almost to the ceiling and space is not affected. You say, oh, the space has to get small because there's so much stuff in it. No, the space is unaware whether there's anything inside or outside. Nothing. Because there is no inside and outside. Space is space.
Only identification with this body form, seeing inside the space, believing yourself to be an object within the space, do you have the concept of objects, time and space. When you're just the space, there's no concept of space.
There's no concept of anything, nor is there an instrument available through cognition of mind, ego, intellect to say, oh, am I this or am I the space? And then this space in this body form would go to a guru and the guru says, no, you're the space. You're just sort of holding on to this body for the moment and that's why you see all these objects.
But in reality, you're the space. And then you say, well, what happens when I leave this body? Well, you are the space. Well, but will I still be here? Well, you see, this is all you're just identifying with the form within your own self, believing yourself to be something other than yourself. So, the illusory you that you believe that you are, when it returns to space, will be space. But you're space right now. You just have the delusion that you're something other than the space because you're holding an object within that space and saying, I am this.
Q: It is sort of like a reversal, whereas with all the attention was going to, for most of the time, you know, when I identify with things, all the attention was going to that. Now, the attention is not going, that's going into the background and the attention to the formlessness is sort of like the more prominent or something.
John: Yeah, yeah. I mean, your awareness, that's why Maharaj says, remain with your Selfless Self. Don't allow any of these little illusory, bothering some situations to bother you and take you away. Don't give yourself away for stuff that doesn't exist. Exchanging you for fake notes, as Maharaj says. You're sitting on gold and you exchange this real gold for fake notes. No, remain with your Selfless Self. Don't give yourself away. Some kind of situation happens, you know, it's illusion. So, I remain with my Selfless Self, spontaneously in the moment, action arises, I pick up the water, I drink it, I put it down, and it's finished.
Q: I guess it's the irony that makes me laugh, I guess.
John: Well, I mean, you know yourself in a real sense, nothing is hard anymore. And it's no pressurization of being this limited body form, trying to protect this body, worried about life and death, worried about sickness and worried about all this sort of stuff that just doesn't exist. Body can become sick, of course, it's five elemental body.
You leave a banana out on the counter, and after a while, it gets mushy and black and nasty, because it's the five elements. This body deteriorates, not as fast as the banana, but in a similar manner. The body eventually deteriorates.
But the you that you are is the same as, quote, your first day in existence of I exist as this body form. So, the moment that the body can no longer sustain, the juices dry up and rot, and then you are no longer able to be sustained by this for that sense of existence. And yet, you are. It just doesn't matter. The entire world could explode right now. It won't affect you at all, just like the space in the room.
You take the space in this room and throw everything out. Now it's an empty room. Then people come in and they do whatever they need to do. Then new people come in. The space is unaffected.
Q: Because what you have sensed is formed out of you, and it's also within you. You are not limited by what comes out of you.
John: Well, again, you have no relation to it. The space in the room has no relation to what's inside the space.
Q: That was always the hardest thing to understand, is how could there be no relationship to the bliss that I would talk about? Because it seemed like there was some kind of relationship.
John: Bliss is within the illusion, and bliss is that little sense of chocolate to remain with your Selfless Self. It's the reward, sort of, in the beginning. You get this subtle sense of Presence, this bliss, whatever you want to call it, this very deep peace.
That's only because you're no longer chasing illusion. You stop disturbing yourself. But again, the space in the room has no relation to what's inside of it.
If you light everything in this room on fire, space is not on fire, nor is it affected. The you that you are is not affected by anything. It cannot be. How?
Q: But it's always been hard to see that that is me, because…
John: All you have to do is recede, recede, recede, recede. There's nothing left other than the knower of the sense of Presence. After you recede away from mind, that's like the most basic thing.
Okay, I recede from mind. Now I'm not caught up in thought. Now I can start to feel like a little bit of peace, the bliss, so to speak.
And I continue remaining with myself. I start to feel that subtle sense of Presence. Now, when I start to feel that subtle sense of Presence, as I identify more with the sense of Presence and less with the illusory body, the world is removed.
That's why we talked about the netti netti. You don't have to say, I'm not this, I'm not that. You identify with the sense of Presence, it eliminates the entire world.
Bodies, mind, ego, intellect is so far. It's like the kindergarten level. You are now, okay, I identify more with the sense of Presence. The more you identify as a sense of Presence, there is a very deep understanding that whether Presence is or is not, I am. I am the knower of the sense of Presence. And now, is there a knower of the knower?
No. Because when you remain with the knower of the sense of Presence, which is just in back, there's nothing. That's the black hole that sucks in all concepts.
That's the you that you are that doesn't want to know anything, that doesn't need to know anything, and that no information or body-based knowledge will make sense to. The body-based knowledge, when people talk about the body-based knowledge, it's so far removed that it does not make sense. It's like, okay, well, that's like some chirping birds in the tree, because it just doesn't make sense.
Even identified with the sense of Presence, and you say, okay, the sense of Presence is there, I am that. That's the I am. I am that. And then, world is gone. So, people talk about birth and death, you're like, I don't understand. What does that mean?
You mean like the form that appears and disappears within your own self? That's what you're calling birth and death? How does the Presence have trouble? I don't understand that either. I can understand that the Presence could disappear, because without the body form, the Presence is not felt. Ah, but then the understanding comes, whether it is or is not, I am.
So, now that doesn't make any sense. What happens when the Presence leaves the body? Well, but Presence is only felt through the body, but the knower of both won't have anything happen, and aren't related at all.
Like, it doesn't, it's not related. The entire world explodes, 8 billion people evaporated, and it doesn't make any difference to you at all, because it never was true. If at all you want to compare, compare yourself to sky or space.
Q: Well, it's interesting too, all this time we've been meeting, like you say, I see what you mean by kind of like it doesn't make sense anymore. But, so I've been speaking all these words that don't make any sense to you, yet you can still recognize that you can relate to what I feel as, that doesn't make sense. You can sort of relate to what doesn't make sense, and because, but it doesn't make sense. So, in a sense, there is no relationship. It's weird.
John: Yeah, there's no relationship between you and the world. There just isn't. And that's why Nisargadatta Maharaj, he said, you're asking me something from the body-based level, and expecting me to answer you as such, and I can't.
Because, again, he didn't say it doesn't make sense, but to the you that you are, it just doesn't make sense. And yet, you can see, and this comes about in, as you're reading the books, and reading the books, you start to understand. Because Nisargadatta Maharaj, all this time, he says, read from the position of Krishna.
Don't read from the position of Arjuna. You're not Arjuna. Everybody thinks they're Arjuna, but you're Krishna. And so, read from that perspective. And then things start to unfold in a natural way. You are that.
Body-based knowledge was there for a time to kind of baby-step you up, so that you can know yourself in a real sense. Once you know yourself in a real sense, game's over. And yet, body-form's available.
So now, do your job, do your duties, take care of your responsibilities, enjoy, do what you like. Things will arise in the moment. Scenes will appear and disappear, appear and disappear, appear and disappear, appear and disappear.
But it has no effect on you. And play your role. Play your role very well. You know? Have the Academy Award for being you.
Q: Because I've been, you know, all this time I've been sort of going back and forth between, but now it seems like less, there's less back and forth. And I know I most likely will get wrapped up in identifications again and forget and sort of have to, like you say, brush.
John: The more you are sensing that Presence, drop back into the feeling of the sense of Presence, and it removes whatever it is. It could be magic eraser, Etch-A-Sketch from years ago. When you were a little kid, you had Etch-A-Sketch, you could turn this little thing and create all this stuff, shake it, and it all disappeared. Same. Drop back into this sense of Presence.
Q: You sweep it away, like you said two weeks ago. Sweep the illusion.
John: Exactly. And what's easiest to drop back into the sense of Presence very quickly is Mantra. Just start to breathe in and out, breathe in and out, breathe in and out.
There's a sense of Presence. Everything's good. Because the illusion appears very real.
Q: Of course, it doesn't make sense to take credit for it.
John: You cannot. A very good example of how illusion seems so real. You're driving, and you're a little bit late to where you're going. All of a sudden, there's a traffic jam. But the navigation says, you're still on schedule. No worries. There's a five-minute slowdown. It seems like forever. But in reality, your trip hasn't been altered at all.
But it can seem very much like, oh my god, I'm never going to get there. I'm literally going to die in this car before I get to where I'm going. Because that's the pressure of illusion. And why is that the pressure of illusion? Because you create this experience. Think about that.
You lay down and sleep at night. You can project an entire dream world, have conversations, have all this stuff going on. Well, that's consciousness. That's the creation element. So, if you sit there and you pay attention to the illusion, of course, it's going to seem very, very troubling. When you pay attention and your awareness is on your own Selfless Self, the subtle sense of Presence, ah, that seemingly grows because awareness is on yourself.
Consciousness with consciousness, awareness with awareness, meditator with meditation, and that's it.
Q: One thing that was pretty interesting to me was the night before last, I had this dream. I've mentioned over time, these talks, my dreams sort of seem to coincide with my sense of getting free of identification sometimes or whatever. But I had this dream, it was kind of powerful.
It coincided with the next day feeling free, kind of. And the dream was that there was a few guys near me, and they were in kind of like Tibetan robes, kind of, not exactly, but I used to study Tibetan Buddhism. And then the others, there was like three others, they faded to background.
There was one guy left and he was pretty clear. I wasn't, I didn't, well, I guess I normally don't see my own body in my dreams. But I was, you know, I was there related to this figure, this guy who was, as he was kind of like getting bigger and approaching me or something, I felt this overwhelming sense of love or just, you know, beauty or whatever you want to call it.
And it was, but at the same time, I was a little bit suspicious of this guy. And for some reason, this is the way it turned out in the dream. It was like I was a little suspicious that he might want to have sex with me or something.
But that wasn't really like a major concern or anything. But what was more impression was that that love was, or just good feelings, whatever, was there. It was pretty powerful, that feeling of love or whatever.
I mean, I don't know, that's the word I'm using for it. But interesting dream that it happened. You still get dreams, I suppose, right?
Do you get dreams?
John: It's all dream. So, it's hard to say, do you get dreams? Like you, the you that you are, doesn't dream. But the consciousness creates and the awareness then is aware of whatever the consciousness is creating. And whether you're being laying down at sleep or in the waking world, you call it dream, dreamy dream or waking dream. But the you that you are doesn't dream.
Q: Yeah, I'm not related to the dream. Once I am me, I'm not really related to the dream.
John: Well, you're never related to the dream because again, the awareness of what consciousness is creating and that awareness is just aware of whatever consciousness is creating, whether you call it waking or whether you call it dreamy dream, it's just consciousness creating. Using five elemental source to seemingly appear and disappear objects in your awareness, you're aware of whatever consciousness is sort of doing, but it has nothing to do with you.
Q: So even if I call it amazing, I'm generating a dream when I say that. If I say it's amazing.
John: Well, you're identifying with something within the dream or you're identifying with a form that's dreaming. But again, the you that you are doesn't dream. So when you ask, oh, do you dream? Well, the consciousness creates and there's awareness of what it's creating, but technically speaking, there's no dreaming, no. It's just appearances within the consciousness that you're aware of.
Q: My mind wants, always wants to figure out, well, okay, well, what's generating the dream? There's no real explanation. I don't know.
John: Well, your mind is the world and it's generating a dream world, whether it be a waking dream. When you say mind, you have to identify with the body form. Mind is not this.
We used to believe that all my thoughts were in this little ball on top of this body form. But when you know yourself in the real sense, mind is the world. So, there's no separation between you and that.
It's again, it's consciousness is creating and the awareness of whatever it's creating is yourself. So, you're aware of whatever consciousness may be creating. The entire world appears on your Presence , Presence , consciousness, whatever.
It's creating, but you're just aware. You're formless, so you don't actually create anything.
Q: So how does the appearance appear? How does it even happen?
John: Through consciousness. The sense of existence creates the concept of duality. I exist, therefore there are other things.
We talked about space in the room. No, no. How does the space in the room see objects?
It connects with the body form and says, oh, look at all these objects. But in reality, the space didn't create any of these objects. These objects are just in the space.
Q: How does the idea of anything appear in the first place?
John: I exist.
Q: It's weird.
John: I am. That's it. How does everything appear? Because the sense of existence is there.
Sense of existence is the key to the dualistic, I exist as something. The one that knows existence is neither existing nor non-existing, just is.
Q: But the sense of existence kind of sees itself in everything, but also sees that it's not anything.
John: Kind of like that. It's just awareness. You're aware of the consciousness and all the forms that are being created in the consciousness.
Whether it's dream consciousness or waking consciousness, it's just consciousness. And within consciousness, forms are appearing and disappearing, and things are happening, just like in a dream. The one who's aware of the dream is the one who's aware of the waking world, and neither are connected to either.
Q: Well, one thing that was interesting, you said last week, when you're in your coffin or whatever, the people that are there mourning you, I think you said that you are them?
John: Yeah, yeah. Because it's all appearing within consciousness. I mean, who else but you are all the people in your dream?
Q: Yeah, yeah.
John: And you don't want to separate dreaming world from waking world. Who other than you are all these people that you see? The grocery store could be packed.
It's all you. Body forms are just lumps of goo. It's all dead bodies, zombies, basically, being animated by the sense of Presence .
And then, because of individual identification as I am something, then there's disturbance because there's, oh, I need to get in line in front of you, oh, you have too many groceries, or oh, this whole store is very packed. Oh, I don't like being around people. All of this is because of identification with a body form.
If you're not identified with the body form, then no matter how many people are there, there's no disturbance. Because you're more like the space in which all these bodies are appearing, then you are an individual body form within that space being so-called stuffed. Although, you don't have to make a big deal about it.
Like, I personally, I go to the movies, I always buy the seat next to me because I have Regal Unlimited for me and my son. So, I buy the seat next to me so that I could put my popcorn. That way, nobody can sit next to me because I really don't like sitting next to people in the theater.
That is a, quote, personal preference, but it's not made a big deal about. It's just, okay, this is something happening. Just like I choose to go to see one movie rather than another movie.
I'm not a big, like, romance or old school movie like Bridgerton or anything like that. I don't really like that. I like more action or sci-fi or something like this.
That's a preference, yes, but it's not so big. That's why Maharaj talks about you can like vanilla ice cream or chocolate ice cream and not lose yourself with identification of, I am only a chocolate ice cream eater.
Q: You can live without it.
John: Yeah, there's no attachment to this because that's why we say do your job, do your duties, take care of your responsibilities and enjoy this life that you're living through this body form. This body form is available. Thank you, God, for the life you're living through me.
Q: It's hard to enjoy when you're in extreme pain, but you still don't necessarily have to identify with the pain, I guess.
John: If you're in pain, you go to the doctor, get some medicine. If there's no cure for the pain, then you have to know that eventually, like, you can't be in pain all the time. There's awareness of the pain.
The more you become aware of the pain, it increases the sensation of pain by being aware because you see that. Like, you can have a headache and then go outside and go do something, return home and the headache's there. But while you were out, it was not there because your awareness was not on the headache, it was on other different various things.
Yes, I'm not discounting people in pain. I know there are people who, when they're leaving the body, they go through horrible pain with cancer and all this sort of thing. But the reality is the you that you are is not affected. Identification with the sense of Presence is the very first step to knowing yourself in a real sense.
Q: One thing that's interesting to me is, I know a friend, his daughter has MS and she's pretty much in, like, really extreme pain almost all, I guess, basically all the time or something. And, but she has, somehow she has faith, a Christian faith in God that gets her through it. That's pretty, so she must have some connection to the sense of formlessness that is the same as that, that trust or that faith or something.
John: It's the you that you are. Through Christian religion, they worship through Buddha religion, whatever, it's all worshiping the same thing. And it's that you that you are, through the conceptual beliefs and ideas, trying to worship your own Selfless Self without saying Selfless Self, because you're calling it something different.
But it's all within the bubble of illusion. And you are totally not affected. Because you were never born, you will never die. You cannot be destroyed. You cannot be separated. You cannot be cut. Nothing.
Q: Thank you for sticking with me through all this. Thank you.
Transcribed by TurboScribe